Comments on: Starbucks Study

By: Darren

Darren — Sun, 25 Sep 2005 01:15:04 +0000

Thanks for the book recommendation and also your flashcard link. I’m sure they’ll come in handy for many people studying Japanese.

By: M Sinclair Stevens

M Sinclair Stevens — Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:51:43 +0000

My favorite reference on verbs is Rita L. Lampkin’s “Japanese Verbs and Essentials of Grammar”. I also hate the “type 1/type 2″ designation because books differ on which is which. I prefer the terms “ichidan” (one-step) and “godan” (godan) because it is more descriptive, but ru-verb (or consonant stem) and u-verb (or vowel stem).
I made verb flashcards years ago. They don’t have every conjugation because I was still taking Japanese I when I made them…but someone might find them useful.
http://www.zanthan.com/japan/nihongo/JapaneseVerbs.html

By: Tae Kim

Tae Kim — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:28:05 +0000

Oh sorry about the all caps, I was just too lazy to put it in italics or bold.

By: Darren

Darren — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:15:42 +0000

I concede your point. However, there’s no need to sound so worked up at my mistake.
Maybe my thinking could be improved not by thinking in terms of -(i)masu and by thinking in terms of -(i)ru.
Thanks for the lesson =)

By: Tae Kim

Tae Kim — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:58:19 +0000

>but I’ve always felt that most new verbs I come across with -i(masu) tend to be group I.
Your thinking is reversed. ALL type 1 verbs conjugate to a “imasu” ending. But that doesn’t mean all type 2 verbs do NOT end in “imasu”. In fact, almost all verbs that have an “iru” ending are type 2 with means that it will conjugate to “imasu”. The previous list is just what I could think of off the top of my head.
To go back to さびる, think of it the opposite way. Can you think of a verb that ends in “iru” like さびる that is NOT type 2? Here’s a list:
http://www.theforeigner-japan.com/japanese101/grammar/conjugations/group4.htm
God, I hate how 一段動詞 is type 2. How unintuitive is that? That’s why I prefer ru-verb and u-verb.

By: Darren

Darren — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:09:19 +0000

Ok, I’m starting to get confused. Obviously there are lots of verbs in both groups, but I’ve always felt that most new verbs I come across with -i(masu) tend to be group I.
Thanks for the link. For Toshiharu, a quick quote:
“Almost all verbs in Japanese can be classified into two categories: ru-verb （一段動詞） and u-verbs （五段動詞）.”

By: Tae Kim

Tae Kim — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:29:20 +0000

>Most verbs which end in -i(masu) are group one, not group two, so the group two verbs you gave as examples should be memorised.
Are you saying you memorized 起きる、落ちる、信じる、見る、着る、生きる、閉じる、封じる、伸びる、染みる、飽きる、試みる、省みる、演じる、命じる、借りる all as exceptions?!!
Please read this:
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/verbs.html#part2

By: Darren

Darren — Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:11:32 +0000

Toshiharu, I’m not sure how you say the group names in Japanese, but I do remember someone talking about 五段なんとかなんとか.
Tae Kim – Most verbs which end in -i(masu) are group one, not group two, so the group two verbs you gave as examples should be memorised.
Group I -i(masu) examples: 書く、読む、売る、聞く、学ぶ、呼ぶ…

By: Tae Kim

Tae Kim — Fri, 16 Sep 2005 02:00:56 +0000

Most verbs that end with “iru” or “eru” sounds are in the same class so さびる is not an exception. Same as 起きる、食べる、落ちる、etc.
Exceptions to this are uncommon such as 帰る、要る、入る。

By: Toshiharu

Toshiharu — Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:19:08 +0000

What is the difference between group I and group II?
I wonder if group I is “五段活用”… So is group II “上一段活用”?